Jerrel of Gorath
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Marvel Comics Civil WarOk for those who don’t know Civil War is Marvels big x-over this year. For a while the government has been debating a super power registration act witch would require people with super powers to go through training and reveal their secret identities so they can fight crime and be held responsible for their actions. A superhero team called the New Warriors who have become the subject of a reality TV show try to bust some villains hiding in a small town. The result of the ensuing battle is a leveled town with 600 dead including the town’s elementary students. This pushes the super hero registration act into the lime light and heroes begin to take sides on the issue which leads to a civil war with in the super hero community.
Whose side are you on? Do you believe that super heroes need rules of conduct and should receive training like cops or military or do you believe that it's their civil right to keep their identity a secret? This is an interesting question Marvel has brought up because at the root of it is the question of how far can a hero break laws to uphold the law.
A super hero goes out seeking law breakers and then attempts to stop them, witch is illegal to do. If a criminal doesn't stop then the hero uses physical force to stop them constituting assault because under the law one cannot claim self defense when one sought out the trouble to begin with. Should the hero be held criminally responsible?
This also raises the question of how far would you let the government go to protect the public? In Civil War the government has a valid concern that with out consequences heroes can go out and make rash decisions which might lead to more innocent lives being put in danger so they decide that if you want to be a super hero you must either register, receive training and get a badge; go home and never fight crime again; or be considered a felon and face other heroes that complied.
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Adak Sunrunner
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Incredibles
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Chay-Ara
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cap that shit
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Shensenn
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A big part of the appeal of super heros to me aside from the cool powers is the fact that they typically work with the law, but outside of it.
Well.. a BIG part of the fantasy even moreso than the powers is that no matter how they catch the bad guy(s) the legal system of the comic world seem to ignore rather important aspects that in reality would have the criminal back on the street after a brief meeting with their lawyer...followed by a civil suit against said superhero...and likely the city too.
Being trained and given a badge and being held to the law would defeat their purpose imo. Imagine Batman for instance.
"Congratulations Batman, here's your badge and you'll be assigned to squad car #43"
"I have the Batmobile and my other vehicles. I won't need a squad car."
"Yeah well none of your vehicles are street legal."
"I've got gadgets...."
"Yeah well I've been meaning to talk to you about that. You see you can't just throw metal bats at people - that's assault. Here's some mace. Your grappling hook...damages public property not to mention hangliding is illegal within city limits which is more or less what you do with that cape of yours."
"......"
"You'll also need to lose the costume. Here's the regulation uniform along with a vest."
"Oh can't I keep the mask PLEASE?!"
"Yeah the mask is alright, but you'll have to poke those ear things out the top of your police cap."
*sigh*
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Rasir
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But how are they supposed to set an example of the law by breaking it?
(might have spelled wrong)
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Shensenn
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| Rasir wrote: | But how are they supposed to set an example of the law by breaking it?
(might have spelled wrong) |
They aren't setting an example of the law. Most superheros came into being BECAUSE the legal system doesn't work. Most superheros I can think of off the top of my head probably break a dozen laws in a days work if I really get technical.
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eboobi
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Ahh... The Punisher
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Dew
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| eboobi wrote: | | Ahh... The Punisher |
Yup, my favorite heroes are the ones that take things a step farther than what the "law" allows, guys like Batman and the Punisher, they just wouldn't be any fun all tied up in rules and stuff.
But I agree with the whole idea, if Batman could exsist in the real world, he would be sued up and down by bad guys. And wanted for breaking numerous laws. Dont even get me started on the whole Robin thing 
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eboobi
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I just enjoy gratuitous violence.
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Tsarg
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| eboobi wrote: | | I just enjoy gratuitous violence. |
You can always move to my neighborhood. We could show you the real meaning of gratuitous violence.
Cheers.
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eboobi
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I can lay down a pretty good volume of fire. That is why I stay away from places like that =)
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Hashum
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The government needs to weigh the loss of 600 civilans even if it's students and children with the number of lives that may have been saved by busting up those super villans.
I mean they could have a nuclear war head which was set to destroy a city with a population in the millions.
Superhero's need their privacy!
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Dew
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Hmmm... maybe we need to start enforcing force users in galaxies like this, permit to practice in the force.... I like it alot.
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Shensenn
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| Hashum wrote: | The government needs to weigh the loss of 600 civilans even if it's students and children with the number of lives that may have been saved by busting up those super villans.
I mean they could have a nuclear war head which was set to destroy a city with a population in the millions.
Superhero's need their privacy! |
Hell yeah, 600 civilians are "acceptable losses" compared with global destruction. Imagine how many innocent law abiding citizens died when those terrorist scum blew up the Death Star. Did that stop the Empire - nope. If you want to make an omlette you have to crack a few eggs lol.
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-Zero
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Well there's one more thing to consider and thats the Hero vs Anti-Hero Archtypes. Of course Captain America would be upset, the guy is Mr. Boyscout who for the most part has always obeyed the law and been saving everyone since WWII...he's the posterboy for being a "Hero"
Now guys like the Punisher fall into the "Anti-Hero" category. They help people in they're own violent and usually deadly means. Obviously many "Hero" types don't approve of them anymore than the authorities do.
To me Hero registration would be like Gun Control. The onlt people that would follow it would be the ones you don't have anything to fear from. The ones that need to be registered or flat out stopped, will never allow that to happen.
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Jerrel of Gorath
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| Hashum wrote: | The government needs to weigh the loss of 600 civilans even if it's students and children with the number of lives that may have been saved by busting up those super villans.
I mean they could have a nuclear war head which was set to destroy a city with a population in the millions.
Superhero's need their privacy! |
This is an interesting comment because when you look at it one could justify the Iraq War in the same way. Yes we may have harmed a few Iraqi citizens and 9000 troops are dead however how many people where saved from his mass graves because we got him out of power? The problem with this argument, which I agree with, is that media and the public only looks at the here and now and not at the "what could have been". If we killed or caotured Hittler before he killed millions of Jews we'd probably have heard the smae thing.
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Hashum
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| Jerrel of Gorath wrote: | | Hashum wrote: | The government needs to weigh the loss of 600 civilans even if it's students and children with the number of lives that may have been saved by busting up those super villans.
I mean they could have a nuclear war head which was set to destroy a city with a population in the millions.
Superhero's need their privacy! |
This is an interesting comment because when you look at it one could justify the Iraq War in the same way. Yes we may have harmed a few Iraqi citizens and 9000 troops are dead however how many people where saved from his mass graves because we got him out of power? The problem with this argument, which I agree with, is that media and the public only looks at the here and now and not at the "what could have been". If we killed or caotured Hittler before he killed millions of Jews we'd probably have heard the smae thing. |
Well the real issue here is that bad news sells papers. They don't talk about how 3000 people a year were probably being killed in Mass Graves by Sadam, so already we've saved 6000 lives etc. That just doesn't sell.
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Sai'nu
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In a comic book since I believe the X-men movie that is out now is tackling this very issue.
I guess from that perspective I voted the Iron Man one. However, I only hold that true because the best Super heroes already abide by a rule set or they wouldn't be doing what their doing. Trying to help when the law can't do it. At least... in a comic book world where the villan can pick up that squad car and chuck it ten city blocks then laugh at the bullets being shot at him. Then... you need a super hero.
Strip away the hero persona and your left with a person. Does this make Batman any less Batman because he's Bruce Wayne? I don't think so. In fact, a favorite series of mine... Star Trek... has also tackled this in a way. Kirk arrives at the conclussion that he needs both sides of him to be who he is. Good and Bad. But, like Kirk, even if you take away a part of the person... it is that person's actions that will still define them if their determined.
In this case... Captain America is right that there shouldn't be a violation of the hero persona. But Iron Man is right that there have to be certain standards to be governed by. There is also a time to say screw the system if it doesn't work... I think Batman may have said that once.
Now just to reaffirm where I'm comming from. I'm a bit like Peter Parker's Uncle... "With great power comes great responsibility..." even governing how you use it. I might be far off track... but I think it is a good building block for the discussion. Yes, no?
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